Sunday, November 7, 2010

Outerplanetary (Extraordinary) People Part 3 of 5

Neptunian Survival Tricks and The Magic of Dis-Illusionment

©1996 - 2010 by Joyce Mason
All Rights Reserved

I confess: I've had more trouble with Neptune than any other outer planet. According to my own theory in Part I of this series, that means I have a bigger obligation to share my learning with you on Neptune than all of the other PUNC planets put together. [1]  Expect it to be nitty gritty and, in parts, not pretty.  After all, Neptune is where we kid ourselves — and the most positive Neptunian skill we can acquire is learning to burst our own bubble.

At first, it isn't fun. I disagree with Mae West.  ("Too much of a good thing is wonderful.")  I have learned the hard way that a person can be too nice. Let's face it: you were most likely drawn to astrology because you want to help people and believe in our oneness in spirit.  You’re compassionate and all those other nice Neptunian things.

This is what's so insidious about Neptune.  "Nice" can actually be very bad for you, beyond a point. A boundary is always the point — knowing when something is too much or when have we gone too far.  It's the point, beyond which we ruin our effectiveness to help others and ourselves.  If Outerplanetary People are groomed to lead others into a better future, we have to become masters of dis-illusionment, especially with ourselves.  (What's so hot about illusions?)

Before I can speak to the most positive potentials of the Otherworldly Planet, I really have to get my five least favorite negative Neptunian archetypes out of the way:
Negative Neptune
Problem is, every Negative Neptunian (N-Nep) needs a Positive Neptunian (P-Nep) to operate. (I'm sorry to say, every P-Nep is part sap.) Even the positive/ negative is an illusion, because P-Neps are nice to a fault.  In the end, this is not a good thing.
P-Neps are so busy being nice to people, compassionate, and caring, we neglect ourselves—our need for limits, clear communication, and to respect ourselves as much as we do others. How can we help others—that thing we thrive on—if there’s nothing left to give? After awhile, this behavior is not only foolish, it drains us of the life force we already pour out too liberally to help others.  It's a one-way ticket to burnout.

We all know the substance-addicted N-Nep.  That one's easy to spot, even if it takes you awhile to pick up on the trend. These are the more beguiling N-Neps you'll meet, and you'll soon see why it's so important to recognize them. [2]

N-Nep # 1:  Mr. Nice Guy.  Mr. Nice won't own his own darkness. You sense all that underlying hostility.  Soon you're the one getting angry. (It wasn't your anger to begin with). He fails to contain his rage on a nonverbal level, despite surface appearances. What he denies and won't express becomes your compulsion. Since you are also Neptunian and don't like conflict, you resent having to be the heavy.

N-Nep #2:   The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing. The French play by Moliere, Tartuffe, represents this archetype in the extreme: a religious fanatic gets taken in, steals a family blind, and hits on all the women. This person is insufferably nice, cleverly manipulative, and often unconscious of, or in denial about, his underground shenanigans. You feel like evil incarnate for suggesting he is really jerking you around. Who would ever believe you? Everyone tells you how wonderful so-and-so is, and you feel like the only person on the planet who really knows he's a so-and-so of another kind). Like the character in the old movie, Gaslight, you start to think you're the one who's crazy.  One of the most insidious things the wolf does is to make a big deal out of how he doesn't kiss and tell, gossip, or share your secrets, whether you're having a sexual affair together or some other intrigue. This seems discreet and considerate, but it's actually a potent admonition for you to keep your own mouth shut. Eventually, it might occur to you, it's because he doesn't want you comparing notes with his other victims!
 N-Nep #3:  The Projection Artist.   This person is often PluNeptunian, a PUNC with a lot of emphasis on the P and N.  She tells you who you are (even if she barely knows you) and what you feel.  Actually, she is using you as a mirror.  Except for feeling fragile, you feel less like a mirror and more like her garbage can, because she has dumped a twisted, often hostile image of you onto your sensitive psyche.  (This mirror is distorted--the Not-So-Fun House variety.) You trigger something she dislikes about herself, and you'll pay!

N-Nep, #4: Queen of DeNial.  Everyone knows this is a feature of the addict,but there are many sober royal pains out there who will tell you some of the most ridiculous things, like "I never feel anger, I just let it go."  This individual could teach Berlitz classes in metababble, using all the right astrological or metaphysical buzz words.  She has no concept that one must honestly process unpleasantness, that unresolved pain and immobilizing traumas can’t be fluffed off by talking mystical nice-nice. Any time someone or some ism, ology, or ologer refuses to deal with matters at an emotional level, it is a red flag that you have entered the kingdom of the Emperor with No Clothes another character in the Court of Royal Pains.
N-Nep #5: The Intruder.  This person breaks and enters into your personal psychic space, but it's so subtle, she has stolen your personal power before you can even call the cops.  She's the colleague or professional who starts reading and making pronouncements about your chart without permission, crossing all kinds of lines that only rightly belong to much more intimate relationships such as close friend or therapist (or astrologer in a professional reading where this sort of deep level of interaction is stated upfront and agreed upon). She asks inappropriate, personal questions—or doesn't ask questions she should, like "Do you mind if I...”  It is so under the table, even if you bust her, she'll deny any ill intent or inappropriate behavior. ("After all, we’re all astrologers...," psychics—whatever). Don't be fooled! This is clearly mind-rape, as real as if you were molested. It is breaking into your mind or chart information and using it for her own purposes. Some possibilities are to “cut” you, seduce you, or show off her predictive skills. Like most of the N-Neps, you can only detect this by the “zing” or “ick” factor. If you feel gut reactions that are painful or unpleasant, you’ve been intruded.

If you don't recognize yourself, either on the giving or receiving end of the above descriptions—this is not necessarily a good sign!  We have to be ever vigilant about our own Neptunian characteristics.   

Here is where we lack clarity about others and ourselves.  Neptune cannot always be grasped easily. Busting yourself and your Neptune is hard work. But bust yourself, you must, because as a PUNC, you will draw these archetypes to you like a magnet and enable them—or be one without realizing it.  Most awful of all, N-Neps often leave you asking, Can I trust myself?

If we can't rely on our own Neptunian skills, e.g., intuition, how can we help others or ourselves? 

The Neptune in Libra Generation
The baby boomers make up a large percentage of our population, those born between 1946 and 1964 who have Neptune in Libra, the relationship sign. Wethink relationships are supposed to be nice. That's why this generation has so much difficulty with them, because real intimacy can neither be acquired nor maintained without healthy ways of expressing conflict (Aries, the opposite of Libra).  We have blown anger all out of proportion.  We make it “bad."  (Anger isn't bad, it simply is.)  Watch a couple of birds in a conflict sometime.  They squawk, ruffle their feathers, and posture wildly, and when the fit is over, it's over, and they fly off on their merry way.  We could learn something from them.

The fear of hurting others is often the foundation of Neptunian behavior that   undoes both you and the other person.  Why are we are responsible for the feelings of the entire world?  (Doesn't the receiver have some responsibility if or how she takes it?) And what about our own feelings?  The lack of healthy ways to express them is probably the single most evil thing on this planet.  Yes. Denial of your feelings is evil.  It creates a pot of seething negativity that comes out in ways that hurt others far more, in the end, than dealing with what you really think or have to say.

For me, this is why Neptune is even more difficult, at its worst, than Pluto. Even though negative Plutonians are also subterranean, there is usually no hiding their vibes.  They don't cloak them in niceness. When we're so worried about hurting others, the other person isn't as fragile as we think.  We are the fragile ones, unable to deal the other person or the stuff inside us we have labeled bad.  The good news: If we named it, we can also call it something else.

Even if Neptune were not prominent in our charts, nice is the way the majority of the population has learned to relate, even if it's phony.  We grew up believing Rock Hudson and Doris Day were the ideal couple.  In fact, Rock was gay and Doris was an abused spouse.  Things were not as they seemed.  An entire generation is still trying to get over it: Life isn't Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, or Donna Reed.  (I actually believe it's a lot better.  That's the magic of dis-illusionment.)

Violence exists primarily because we don't have culturally approved ways to express or ritualize anger, so it erupts in ways that are horrible. Imagine a world where we have permission to say all that ugly stuff we feel in a protected environment, among friends, where we're encouraged to get it out and no one thinks much about it? Where our skin is tough enough that we don't mind looking at ourselves?  Where we view feelings as an energy and learn not to target them so much at others (even if someone triggered them in us), but to work with them as our own creations.  Express them.  Not be judged for them.  Be done with it.  Next thing.

Examining Your Conscience/Consciousness

I have dwelled much longer in this article on the "negatives" than usual, because Neptune is where we kid ourselves.  And speaking of kids and Neptune in another way, I can remember Sister Mary Stoneface making 50 squirming kids in puberty with Pluto in Leo and Chiron in Scorpio sit still for 10 minutes daily to "examine our consciences." PUNCs would do well to consider an updated, nondenominational version of this practice. The next section is a checklist to help you prepare to make a good confession to yourself and learn to burst your own bubble. 

 Positive Neptune – Ways to Get a Grip on Fog

1.   Get over being 100% "nice." Too nice is too much.  It hurts others and yourself.  Chronic sweetness is phony. If we can't be a good example to our children, clients, and friends for handling conflict and avoiding mistreatment, we are perpetuating a world of doormats and violence.  We can live in a world without victims. Standing up for yourself means setting down boundaries and learning these simple words of emotional ownership: "It's not OK with me when . . .” These words don't name, blame, or shame.  They instruct.

2.  Know your own Neptune.  Look at how Neptune or Pisces influences your   personal planets or angular houses. For example, if Neptune is conjunct Venus, you usually don't have a clue for a long time when it comes to love and money. This is not your most lucid area.  Be aware of it, wherever that fog-zone lies in your chart

3.  Find a Reality Chuck (or Charlene).  Cultivate a friend you can trust who will listen to what's going on for you in the touchy areas identified in #2, preferably not someone with the same afflictions. Give them permission to be your fog lifter, to tell you the truth when you're so gooey in love or impractical about money, they bring you back to earth. Or if your Neptune aspects Mars, when you're acting too wimpy (delusional, hysterical, or irrational for Sun, Moon, and Mercury).

4. Examine your own silence.  Why can't you bring out into the open what's   going on, under the table, between you and another person?  Be honest with   yourself.  Share your rationale (more like rationalization) with Chuck or Charlene (#3).  I discovered that I had very clever Neptunian excuses for why I couldn't declare my feelings in man-woman relationships: I didn't want to be too forward (he's "too sensitive"); I didn't want to hurry love; I didn't want to destroy my  relationship with the person on another level (e.g., colleague or healer).  The truth is I didn't want to hear the truth: how he really felt about me. (As long as I didn't know, I could fantasize it my way.) Underground relationships are less risky. They are cheap thrills potent on the level of chemistry, without dealing with the real issues or truth of the other person's feelings. (Sexual feelings almost always are mutual. They keep the game going, along with the unspoken rule: Don't talk.)

5.  Feelings are real and important.  Don't deny them—ever.  When you feel something is going on between you and another person, no matter how much he or she denies it or ignores your attempts to clarify, if those feelings persist, they are real. Continued denial on the part of the other person is crazy making behavior.  Make "I" statements: "When you do this, I feel that." If you can't come to a positive resolution or clarity, consider if you need to continue having a conversation with a cloud. You have the right to choose to what, to whom, and how much you give your precious time, love, attention, and resources.  When someone chronically drains you, it's a flashing neon light that says this is not a good place to put your energy.

 6.  Know the red flags.  Reread the descriptions of the Negative Neptune archetypes in this article periodically.  Anyone you know?

7.  Learn the Converse Golden Rule.  The Golden Rule is Do unto others, as you would have others do unto you. Most Neptunians already do that to a fault. Instead, we have to learn the Converse Golden Rule: Do unto yourself as you do unto others.  I finally learned to stop being a victim-type Neptunian by tricking myself in this way. Start with a negative, think positive, and do a little alchemy to turn it into something helpful.

Being good to others, I had down.  What if I started treating myself the way I did my friends and clients?  Even more dramatically, what if I considered myself as important? After all, I can't help others if I'm wrung-out.  If I really valued helping others, I saw I'd have to put self-care first, not last.  Over time, I became a new person by starting with what I'm good at—consideration of others—and simply applying it to myself.

8.  Learn About the Psychic Realms. These include issues such as psychic cording, feeling emotions that aren't really yours, and keeping in your own   energy space, which is enhanced by meditation and yoga.  Keeping your psychic space also can be boosted by the use of certain visualizations and flower essences.  People really can "do stuff to you" on a psychic level, if you don't know how to protect yourself.  An article on the subject, which has been  invaluable to me and my clients, contains a veritable cookbook of helpful hints to protect yourself from negative Neptunian influences: "How to Keep Your Intuition Without Losing Yourself," an interview with Marcy Calhoun by Dio Urmilla Neff, Yoga Journal,  July-August 1986.[3] The essentials of this material are also in Marcy Calhoun’s book, Are You Really Too Sensitive? Another excellent resource that I’m just digging into myself is Cut Cords of Attachment: Heal Yourself and Others with Energy Spirituality by Rose Rosetree.

Keep Your Sense of Humor

I often call this planet Neptoon, because if you don't see some of this stuff for the Loony Toon it is, you’ll go crazy (the ultimate in Negative Neptoon!). Neptune, at its best, is spirituality, vision, and some of the most wonderful things in life.  It is romance—the hunches that make us so good with people—the sensitivity that allows us to be a good friend, parent, and astrologer.  Yet its downside is so tricky, we have to be ever vigilant to guard against letting what is intrinsically good become warped.

The two extremes of Neptune's down side-rose colored glasses and unconsciousness its many forms (manipulation, denial, etc.)—often co-exist in the same person.  We are the people who see the world as it could be and say why not?  That potential makes busting the nebulous side of our own Neptunes so important.  We need to bless the world with these gifts. If we don't learn to navigate these sometimes-murky waters and bust out of the fog standing upright, collective evolution loses out on its next stars.

Speaking of busting Neptune, busting up is essential, so we don't blame ourselves and get into a negative down spiral of self-hate when we have become a sap or a victim in some form of Planet Fog.  These are the times I like to think of the most exaggerated Neptoon image I can conjure up, so I feel less crazy, by comparison. Probably my all-time favorite is the ending of the British comedy, The Life of Brian.  As a large group of martyrs is hanging around together at their collective crucifixion, the victims burst into the song, "Always look on the bright side of life."

When you're wondering if you're too far flung from reality, if your glasses are too rosy, think of this scene.  If the cross fits, bear it.  (But grin at yourself, first.)

Photo Credit: Female bowing a Kiss Good-Bye © Donnarae | Dreamstime

Next - Part 4 of 5, Plutonian: Putting Passion to Work


[1] In case you are joining this series in progress, that stands for Pluto, Uranus, Neptune, and Chiron, and PUNC people are Plutonian, Uranian, Neptunian, and Chironic.

[2] Although I use he or she with specific archetypes, this is simply for variety.  These types do not favor one gender over the other in my experience.

[3] To explore availability of reprints or back issues, visit Yoga Journal or phone (415) 591-0555.

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Lana said...

Well done Joyce, tackling the untackleable Neptune!

Some of my clients also have the most problems with Neptune.

Can I ask a question? What would you say is the difference in quality between Venusian niceness (as in Taurus and Libra) and Neptunian niceness?

Having Moon conjunct Neptune in Libra confuses the issue a bit for me.

Thanks again, and Love


Mary Pat Lynch said...

great post! ... as someone with Neptoon (love that one) conjunct Mercury in Libra, I sooo need to be reminded of this :)

Joyce Mason said...

Thanks, Lana. I had a lot of practice not tackling Neptune, got fed up, and finally figured out how! :) (Beware, Neg-Neps! I'm onto you!)

I'm not sure I'm very qualified to talk about the difference between Venus and Neptune when it comes to niceness. Even though I have Taurus Rising, one of my 3 Libra planets is Neptune squaring Moon. So I'm in similar confusion. Still, if I were to venture an educated guess from the middle of that fog, I'd say that Taurus and Libra are nice by nature because they love relationship and the beauty and calm Venus brings. They are nice, at least in part, to keep that Venusian ambience. Neptune nice comes more from compassion and concern about the other person, being protective if not overprotective of the other's feelings. It's more a "becoming them" thing like Neptune is so well-known for. As we well know, depending with whom one merges, that might be anything but peaceful!

From Joyce's For What It's Worth Department! :)

Love to you,

LB said...

Much as I hate to admit it, I think I saw a little of myself in one of your descriptions, which makes me want to re-think some of my natural inclinations – particularly over the internet where boundaries sometimes get too easily crossed. Neptune is very strong in my chart, plus with my Virgo rising septile Neptune, my desire to help and serve can all too easily become intrusive and maybe even self-serving (yuck!). Thankfully, I’m capable of learning from my mistakes; I don’t ever want to be so full of myself that I flow into another person’s space and inadvertently cause them harm.

Thanks for the reminder to contain my Neptune.

Joyce Mason said...

Hi, LB!

I love it. I start talking Neptune and it brings people into the confessional. :) (Religion is the ultimate Neptoon at times. There's the stuff for a series of posts or a book!)

I, too, have to monitor myself for the same reasons. You are not alone. Neptune is insidious and slippery when he's gone off the deep end into the negative waters.

We can all remind each other.

Lana said...

Thanks for your helpful perspective and food for thought. Will continue to muse...and look forward to Part 4!

Anonymous said...

Hi Joyce - thank you for this insight. I belong to the Neptune in Scorpio genereation (in the 12th no less) and I wondered what you would say about us? I confess there was a few! things that hit home on the N-Nep, especially the Queen of DeNial and the metababble - ouch! When combined with lots of Virgo and a strong Jup you end up with a VAP - Very Annoying Person ... Neptune is the planet in my chart I don't get - it's just too fuzzy, too murky. Pluto is power, Uranus is fun, Saturn is reward and so on - but Neptune gives me an image of something spooky lurking in dark waters. I'm uncomfortable with the energy. Thanks to your article it's actually a bit clearer. Not too bad!

Joyce Mason said...

Glad I could clear up the murky waters for you, Natalie, even a little. Love your acronym VAP! On the more serious side, your description of that creepy Neptunian feeling really hits home in the middle of my gut. Been there, done it, don't like it. It's almost like waiting for Jaws to attack. I can hear the music. Eek!

There is so much on the positive side of Neptune, it's really worth the vigilance to join power, persistence and digging into the depths of feelings to bust the dark side. I think that's the positive potential of Neptune in Scorpio. If anyone can lure out that shark and disarm him, it's the Plutonian part of that combo. That you could "see yourself" in some of these archetypes proves you're already on your way.

Joyce Mason said...

Mary Pat, I have Neptune conjunct Mercury in Libra, too. I wrote this just for us, LOL!

LB said...

Hi Joyce – For some reason, this post really struck a chord with me. As I thought more about it, I regretted part of my last comment (that’s the Pluto in me), since I think it feeds into one of the biggest Neptunian traps I’m prone to falling into – which is to allow myself to be manipulated into believing that I’m somehow deserving of someone else's bad behavior because of something I’ve done. I can become convinced I’ve committed some terrible sin, when in fact, no such thing has occurred. I absolutely make mistakes and am the first to admit to having flaws, but my 4th house Saturn sits at the midpoint of my Neptune/Moon square, so no one is harder on me than I am.

Neptune relationships can be sooooo hypocritical. It’s taken me years to be able to recognize that behind someone’s lovely Neptune façade can lurk the heart of a self-righteous victim who not only lacks objectivity with regard to their own motives, but who is not nearly as compassionate, unselfish or insightful as they make themselves out to be. It’s also taken me years to recognize their tactics of blaming and controlling through passive-aggressive behaviors such as avoiding, ignoring, shunning and/or brushing off, and to finally KNOW and be able to say it’s not okay. It also really bothers me when someone assigns ulterior motives to my giving, as if I couldn’t genuinely be that “nice". It doesn’t happen often, but with Pluto in the 12th (and conjunct my ascendant), others sometimes project their own negative disowned stuff onto me.

Your post made me realize something else that’s always bothered me. While my own Neptune is in Scorpio (conjunct Mercury/Jupiter), it’s also conjunct my Libra Sun, so I think there are those amongst the Neptune in Libra generation who recognize certain idealistic Libran qualities in me, but become disillusioned when they realize I’m a lot more intense and probing than they originally thought. My Scorpio planets are never content to play in the shallow end of the pool for very long, which understandably, isn’t for everyone. I do think sometimes the most healing personal relationships are the ones that challenge us to move beyond our comfort zones and to face our blind spots. But maybe that’s more Pluto than Neptune – I get confused since my Neptune is in Scorpio.

Sorry for the long comment, but this post definitely got me thinking and gave a voice to much of what I’ve observed about Neptune’s hidden side; I’m looking forward to the rest of the series.

Joyce Mason said...

Thank you, LR, for your additional insightful comments and for your openness in sharing them. All your points resonate with me, and I think the issue of Neptunians as projection artists is a huge one. The expression "it's a matter of degree" comes to mind. Everyone projects a bit at times. Those milder cases are more "just human" and more irritating or annoying than long-term harmful. If we're working on ourselves, we'll notice--or as you say, those close to us who really help us grow will give us the metaphorical elbow in the ribs to awaken us to our self-deception. When it's the more insidious kind with boundaries crossed without the slightest consideration, then it's time to back off the offender.

As a sister Neptune/Moon, I struggle myself with accepting guilt and blame, often for things I had nothing to do with. (Catholic school bred in the '50s. Goes with the turf.) To illustrate what a good "screen" I am for someone else's horror films, once a Nancy Neptoon threw all her negative stuff onto my me, basically because she was angry with me, and declared I'm depressed and basically a negative person. When I took this news home to my long-term, loving friends, they laughed out loud and wanted to know who she was talking about. The sad part is that even though she was off by a country mile, as the saying goes, I still examined myself in every dark corner and actually took in something that was totally ridiculous. That was many years ago and I'm getting better at not taking in whatever anybody throws my way. But there's a tools I forget to use. This discussion reminds me of it: "Is this energy/idea/attitude mine?" I'm going to carry that tool with me more often.

Self-examination is a good thing. I'd rather analyze than jump to quick conclusions and err on the side of busting myself doing a Neptunian thing that isn't in integrity. I caught myself thinking of doing something manipulative this week, and I was glad I talked myself out of it.

I have often felt that the Plutonian and Libran energy make strange bedfellows, so I truly understand your point about, "Surprise! I'm deep!" With my 3 Libra planets and Pluto square ASC (1 degree), even as a twentysomething, men were stunned to find out that behind the party girl was a person of substance. More and more, I just find other unicorns who get it and like it.

I can't close without saying that I can't stand passive-aggressive behavior. I can't think of anything more destructive for which there is usually too little consequence in the world. That's what makes it so tough to handle. We don't have good models for it. We're more or less on our own.

Thanks, again, for adding your depth of experience to this conversation. I truly value your ongoing contributions!

LB said...

“I have often felt that the Plutonian and Libran energy make strange bedfellows, so I truly understand your point about, "Surprise! I'm deep!" With my 3 Libra planets and Pluto square ASC (1 degree), even as a twentysomething, men were stunned to find out that behind the party girl was a person of substance.”

Amen to that! Speaking as a former twenty-something party girl, I went through a long period of time where I dated fiery men with strong Pisces signatures (Neptune conjunct Moon, Moon in Pisces, Venus in Pisces, etc.) And all of them had Neptune in Libra closely conjunct my Libra Sun/Venus/North Node. Looking back, I realize none of them had the slightest clue who I was. Back then, I’m not sure I did either. My husband (Scorpio Sun conjunct Neptune in Scorpio) was the first man to really "get me", and what a relief it’s been.

Harriett Broughton said...

I'm not an astrologer. I was born in 1960 - how did I end up with Neptune at 10o Scorpio?

Your article did seem to be a good explanation of Neptune in Libra. Could my Scorpio Neptune be one reason why I keep analyzing the reasons for your feelings?

Utilizing Neptune in Libra, the way I take your article, seems like holding a Slinky by the middle. Not much else you can do with it other than observe the extremes.

Yes, I'm a Taurus Asc so I don't always "get" things right off, but I didn't spot anything positive about Neptune in your article. I've found a lot of value in my Neptune placement. Am I kidding myself? Always that chance.

Honestly, the first thing I thought when I read this was She was stung by Sr. Mary Stoneface as a child. lol

Joyce Mason said...

Hi, Parin--

Thanks for your perspective. It's no illusion! I couldn't agree with you more that Neptune in the positive, is wonderful--compassion, bliss, a feeling of oneness. It's artistry, dreams, being visionary--the best of the best. The purpose of this article is to help people who have trouble with Neptune learn to recognize its illusory qualities and to have some tools to bring their Neptune into the positive with personal boundaries and similar tools. As I mentioned, I dwelled much longer in this article on the "negatives" than usual, because Neptune is where we kid ourselves. I get a lot of reader feedback for wanting help with this planet, more than any of the other "outers."

I mentioned Neptune in Libra because it is the classic one for illusions about relationships. Neptune in Scorpio has a different orientation where both bliss and illusion likely involve different subject matter--psychic realms, healing, and passion to name a few possibilities. By your year of birth Neptune had moved from Libra to Scorpio.

I've certainly had my challenges with Neptunian characters! I should clarify that "Sr. Mary Stoneface" is what she called herself and thought we did behind her back. (Not that I knew of!) I actually don't see her Neptunian. In context, I was mentioning how she made us "examine our consciences," more of a Mercury analytical practice. I was suggesting it's still a good thing to do! Even if we squirmed doing it as kids, as an adult I've grown to appreciate and live by that introspection.

Blessings and positive Neptune!

syrynx said...

I realize this is an old post, but I hope you will forgive me reviving it to ask a question. As someone who recognizes herself in all of those N-Neptunes, bar Tartuffe : ), how can you tell whether you have broken through an illusion - couldn't it just be another layer of illusion that you've broken through to?

When I was in my early twenties, a woman who had made her dislike of me pretty obvious, told me she hated passive agressive behaviour and she gave me significant looks while saying this so I worked out that she was talking about me. She was right, in a sense, I was chronically furious, I had a small baby who was very difficult because he had a disability that would not be diagnosed for some years and my then partner's response was to bury himself in work and it left me lonely, terrified and most of all, yes,furious. So I was pass-agg then to a spectacular degree and although I doubt I've conquered it completely I have tried to rein it in. How do I know I am really doing things differently, how do you separate others' projection from your own stuff that really does need some sorting out? Perhaps I have just moved on to a different kind of self-delusion.

Joyce Mason said...

Dear syrynx,

No forgiveness needed! Especially because you bring up such an important but tricky question, how one’s own Neptunian behavior leads to self-doubt. My advice remains to find one or more truly grounded individuals that you trust to help you sort this out. It/they can be a friend, therapist, spiritual counselor—any wise person who will help you go over and view objectively how you’re interacting with others. After awhile, the same principles they apply in these discussions will be something you’ll learn to do yourself. You’ll internalize them. Before long, you’ll find yourself applying them in the moment as you interact with others, which gives you the opportunity to nip certain behavioral patterns in the bud, like passive-aggression. You’ll grow in confidence the more you do this for yourself, and you’ll be able to see by others’ reactions, different from the past, how well you’re succeeding. Your very willingness to come out of the foggy part of Neptune and the desire to be more forthright in your communications and not to fool yourself anymore tells me you’ve already got both feet on the path of healing the downside of Neptune.

Other ideas: You might work with affirmations, such as, “I am authentic in all my communications.” Along with that, you might use, “I am willing to let people see my true feelings.” Many of us with significant Neptune aspects think others will fall apart if we show our anger or won’t like us. That is rarely true, and we’re often more fearful of our own anger. I wrote a post on my other blog about affirmations that you might find helpful: Affirmations: Part 2, Column 2. There are many others you can try. “I see myself clearly” or “I am confident in my ability to relate with others in an authentic way” are examples. These help you set your intention as manifesting change starts in our minds.

Wishing you more healing and all blessings,

syrynx said...

Thankyou for your very thoughtful reply Joyce, that's extrememly helpful guidance for me. I really can see how being frightened of letting my feelings out has undermined my relationships with people in the past, that really resonates with my experience. I have a Saturn square Moon in my natal chart too which I think might exaccerbate that tendency quite a bit. I gues that Saturn makes me a SPUNC : )I came to this post looking for some info about my outer planet trines and sextiles to my ascendant. This series of posts on the PUNC configuration have been very helpful, Joyce. Thanks again!

Joyce Mason said...

Syrynx, so glad I could help, and I laughed out loud at SPUNC! I'll have to mention that when I do my Outerplanetary People presentations. There are many funny plays on that acronym. You can be a PUC or an UNC, etc. I hadn't thought of SPUNC before, but now that you mention it, if you're an UNC with a lot of Jupiter, you could--heaven forbid--be a JUNC! :)