tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post3991755959971251306..comments2023-10-19T23:55:34.695-05:00Comments on The Radical Virgo: Outerplanetary (Extraordinary) People Part 3 of 5Joyce Masonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-68365071149194490222011-09-20T13:54:07.709-05:002011-09-20T13:54:07.709-05:00Syrynx, so glad I could help, and I laughed out lo...Syrynx, so glad I could help, and I laughed out loud at SPUNC! I'll have to mention that when I do my Outerplanetary People presentations. There are many funny plays on that acronym. You can be a PUC or an UNC, etc. I hadn't thought of SPUNC before, but now that you mention it, if you're an UNC with a lot of Jupiter, you could--heaven forbid--be a JUNC! :)Joyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-13136337275327487202011-09-20T01:56:36.312-05:002011-09-20T01:56:36.312-05:00Thankyou for your very thoughtful reply Joyce, tha...Thankyou for your very thoughtful reply Joyce, that's extrememly helpful guidance for me. I really can see how being frightened of letting my feelings out has undermined my relationships with people in the past, that really resonates with my experience. I have a Saturn square Moon in my natal chart too which I think might exaccerbate that tendency quite a bit. I gues that Saturn makes me a SPUNC : )I came to this post looking for some info about my outer planet trines and sextiles to my ascendant. This series of posts on the PUNC configuration have been very helpful, Joyce. Thanks again!syrynxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-8237011099212076322011-09-16T12:21:44.322-05:002011-09-16T12:21:44.322-05:00Dear syrynx,
No forgiveness needed! Especially be...Dear syrynx,<br /><br />No forgiveness needed! Especially because you bring up such an important but tricky question, how one’s own Neptunian behavior leads to self-doubt. My advice remains to find one or more truly grounded individuals that you trust to help you sort this out. It/they can be a friend, therapist, spiritual counselor—any wise person who will help you go over and view objectively how you’re interacting with others. After awhile, the same principles they apply in these discussions will be something you’ll learn to do yourself. You’ll internalize them. Before long, you’ll find yourself applying them in the moment as you interact with others, which gives you the opportunity to nip certain behavioral patterns in the bud, like passive-aggression. You’ll grow in confidence the more you do this for yourself, and you’ll be able to see by others’ reactions, different from the past, how well you’re succeeding. Your very willingness to come out of the foggy part of Neptune and the desire to be more forthright in your communications and not to fool yourself anymore tells me you’ve already got both feet on the path of healing the downside of Neptune. <br /><br />Other ideas: You might work with affirmations, such as, “I am authentic in all my communications.” Along with that, you might use, “I am willing to let people see my true feelings.” Many of us with significant Neptune aspects think others will fall apart if we show our anger or won’t like us. That is rarely true, and we’re often more fearful of our own anger. I wrote a post on my other blog about affirmations that you might find helpful: <a href="http://hotflashbackscoolinsights.blogspot.com/2009/03/affirmations-part-2-column-2.html/%22" rel="nofollow"> Affirmations: Part 2, Column 2</a>. There are many others you can try. “I see myself clearly” or “I am confident in my ability to relate with others in an authentic way” are examples. These help you set your intention as manifesting change starts in our minds.<br /><br />Wishing you more healing and all blessings,<br />JoyceJoyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-16266818693710337062011-09-15T23:13:20.623-05:002011-09-15T23:13:20.623-05:00I realize this is an old post, but I hope you will...I realize this is an old post, but I hope you will forgive me reviving it to ask a question. As someone who recognizes herself in all of those N-Neptunes, bar Tartuffe : ), how can you <i>tell</i> whether you have broken through an illusion - couldn't it just be another layer of illusion that you've broken through <i>to</i>? <br /><br />When I was in my early twenties, a woman who had made her dislike of me pretty obvious, told me she hated passive agressive behaviour and she gave me significant looks while saying this so I worked out that she was talking about me. She was right, in a sense, I was chronically furious, I had a small baby who was very difficult because he had a disability that would not be diagnosed for some years and my then partner's response was to bury himself in work and it left me lonely, terrified and most of all, yes,furious. So I was pass-agg then to a spectacular degree and although I doubt I've conquered it completely I have tried to rein it in. How do I know I am really doing things differently, how do you separate others' projection from your own stuff that really does need some sorting out? Perhaps I have just moved on to a different kind of self-delusion.syrynxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-87441310250055491962010-11-16T02:10:37.619-06:002010-11-16T02:10:37.619-06:00Hi, Parin--
Thanks for your perspective. It's...Hi, Parin--<br /><br />Thanks for your perspective. It's no illusion! I couldn't agree with you more that Neptune in the positive, is wonderful--compassion, bliss, a feeling of oneness. It's artistry, dreams, being visionary--the best of the best. The purpose of this article is to help people who have trouble with Neptune learn to recognize its illusory qualities and to have some tools to bring their Neptune into the positive with personal boundaries and similar tools. As I mentioned, I dwelled much longer in this article on the "negatives" than usual, because Neptune is where we kid ourselves. I get a lot of reader feedback for wanting help with this planet, more than any of the other "outers."<br /><br />I mentioned Neptune in Libra because it is the classic one for illusions about relationships. Neptune in Scorpio has a different orientation where both bliss and illusion likely involve different subject matter--psychic realms, healing, and passion to name a few possibilities. By your year of birth Neptune had moved from Libra to Scorpio.<br /><br />I've certainly had my challenges with Neptunian characters! I should clarify that "Sr. Mary Stoneface" is what she called herself and thought we did behind her back. (Not that I knew of!) I actually don't see her Neptunian. In context, I was mentioning how she made us "examine our consciences," more of a Mercury analytical practice. I was suggesting it's still a good thing to do! Even if we squirmed doing it as kids, as an adult I've grown to appreciate and live by that introspection.<br /><br />Blessings and positive Neptune!<br />JoyceJoyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-6223159227896934862010-11-15T23:59:16.006-06:002010-11-15T23:59:16.006-06:00I'm not an astrologer. I was born in 1960 - h...I'm not an astrologer. I was born in 1960 - how did I end up with Neptune at 10o Scorpio? <br /><br />Your article did seem to be a good explanation of Neptune in Libra. Could my Scorpio Neptune be one reason why I keep analyzing the reasons for your feelings?<br /><br />Utilizing Neptune in Libra, the way I take your article, seems like holding a Slinky by the middle. Not much else you can do with it other than observe the extremes.<br /><br />Yes, I'm a Taurus Asc so I don't always "get" things right off, but I didn't spot anything positive about Neptune in your article. I've found a lot of value in my Neptune placement. Am I kidding myself? Always that chance.<br /><br />Honestly, the first thing I thought when I read this was <i>She was stung by Sr. Mary Stoneface as a child.</i> lolHarriett Broughtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03318950291241227620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-62445620362520975262010-11-11T00:07:02.807-06:002010-11-11T00:07:02.807-06:00“I have often felt that the Plutonian and Libran e...“I have often felt that the Plutonian and Libran energy make strange bedfellows, so I truly understand your point about, "Surprise! I'm deep!" With my 3 Libra planets and Pluto square ASC (1 degree), even as a twentysomething, men were stunned to find out that behind the party girl was a person of substance.”<br /><br />Amen to that! Speaking as a former twenty-something party girl, I went through a long period of time where I dated fiery men with strong Pisces signatures (Neptune conjunct Moon, Moon in Pisces, Venus in Pisces, etc.) And all of them had Neptune in Libra closely conjunct my Libra Sun/Venus/North Node. Looking back, I realize none of them had the slightest clue who I was. Back then, I’m not sure I did either. My husband (Scorpio Sun conjunct Neptune in Scorpio) was the first man to really "get me", and what a relief it’s been.LBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-77833033349576170942010-11-10T22:44:15.643-06:002010-11-10T22:44:15.643-06:00Thank you, LR, for your additional insightful comm...Thank you, LR, for your additional insightful comments and for your openness in sharing them. All your points resonate with me, and I think the issue of Neptunians as projection artists is a huge one. The expression "it's a matter of degree" comes to mind. Everyone projects a bit at times. Those milder cases are more "just human" and more irritating or annoying than long-term harmful. If we're working on ourselves, we'll notice--or as you say, those close to us who really help us grow will give us the metaphorical elbow in the ribs to awaken us to our self-deception. When it's the more insidious kind with boundaries crossed without the slightest consideration, then it's time to back off the offender.<br /><br />As a sister Neptune/Moon, I struggle myself with accepting guilt and blame, often for things I had nothing to do with. (Catholic school bred in the '50s. Goes with the turf.) To illustrate what a good "screen" I am for someone else's horror films, once a Nancy Neptoon threw all her negative stuff onto my me, basically because she was angry with me, and declared I'm depressed and basically a negative person. When I took this news home to my long-term, loving friends, they laughed out loud and wanted to know who she was talking about. The sad part is that even though she was off by a country mile, as the saying goes, I still examined myself in every dark corner and actually took in something that was totally ridiculous. That was many years ago and I'm getting better at not taking in whatever anybody throws my way. But there's a tools I forget to use. This discussion reminds me of it: "Is this energy/idea/attitude mine?" I'm going to carry that tool with me more often.<br /><br />Self-examination is a good thing. I'd rather analyze than jump to quick conclusions and err on the side of busting myself doing a Neptunian thing that isn't in integrity. I caught myself thinking of doing something manipulative this week, and I was glad I talked myself out of it. <br /><br />I have often felt that the Plutonian and Libran energy make strange bedfellows, so I truly understand your point about, "Surprise! I'm deep!" With my 3 Libra planets and Pluto square ASC (1 degree), even as a twentysomething, men were stunned to find out that behind the party girl was a person of substance. More and more, I just find other unicorns who get it and like it. <br /><br />I can't close without saying that I can't stand passive-aggressive behavior. I can't think of anything more destructive for which there is usually too little consequence in the world. That's what makes it so tough to handle. We don't have good models for it. We're more or less on our own.<br /><br />Thanks, again, for adding your depth of experience to this conversation. I truly value your ongoing contributions!Joyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-46897030195860944132010-11-10T19:00:16.371-06:002010-11-10T19:00:16.371-06:00Hi Joyce – For some reason, this post really struc...Hi Joyce – For some reason, this post really struck a chord with me. As I thought more about it, I regretted part of my last comment (that’s the Pluto in me), since I think it feeds into one of the biggest Neptunian traps I’m prone to falling into – which is to allow myself to be manipulated into believing that I’m somehow deserving of someone else's bad behavior because of something I’ve done. I can become convinced I’ve committed some terrible sin, when in fact, no such thing has occurred. I absolutely make mistakes and am the first to admit to having flaws, but my 4th house Saturn sits at the midpoint of my Neptune/Moon square, so no one is harder on me than I am. <br /><br />Neptune relationships can be sooooo hypocritical. It’s taken me years to be able to recognize that behind someone’s lovely Neptune façade can lurk the heart of a self-righteous victim who not only lacks objectivity with regard to their own motives, but who is not nearly as compassionate, unselfish or insightful as they make themselves out to be. It’s also taken me years to recognize their tactics of blaming and controlling through passive-aggressive behaviors such as avoiding, ignoring, shunning and/or brushing off, and to finally KNOW and be able to say it’s not okay. It also really bothers me when someone assigns ulterior motives to my giving, as if I couldn’t genuinely be that “nice". It doesn’t happen often, but with Pluto in the 12th (and conjunct my ascendant), others sometimes project their own negative disowned stuff onto me. <br /><br />Your post made me realize something else that’s always bothered me. While my own Neptune is in Scorpio (conjunct Mercury/Jupiter), it’s also conjunct my Libra Sun, so I think there are those amongst the Neptune in Libra generation who recognize certain idealistic Libran qualities in me, but become disillusioned when they realize I’m a lot more intense and probing than they originally thought. My Scorpio planets are never content to play in the shallow end of the pool for very long, which understandably, isn’t for everyone. I do think sometimes the most healing personal relationships are the ones that challenge us to move beyond our comfort zones and to face our blind spots. But maybe that’s more Pluto than Neptune – I get confused since my Neptune is in Scorpio.<br /><br />Sorry for the long comment, but this post definitely got me thinking and gave a voice to much of what I’ve observed about Neptune’s hidden side; I’m looking forward to the rest of the series.LBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-44122187517201961862010-11-09T02:18:17.143-06:002010-11-09T02:18:17.143-06:00Mary Pat, I have Neptune conjunct Mercury in Libra...Mary Pat, I have Neptune conjunct Mercury in Libra, too. I wrote this just for us, LOL!Joyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-52342598794624561492010-11-08T21:40:19.674-06:002010-11-08T21:40:19.674-06:00Glad I could clear up the murky waters for you, Na...Glad I could clear up the murky waters for you, Natalie, even a little. Love your acronym VAP! On the more serious side, your description of that creepy Neptunian feeling really hits home in the middle of my gut. Been there, done it, don't like it. It's almost like waiting for Jaws to attack. I can hear the music. Eek!<br /><br />There is so much on the positive side of Neptune, it's really worth the vigilance to join power, persistence and digging into the depths of feelings to bust the dark side. I think that's the positive potential of Neptune in Scorpio. If anyone can lure out that shark and disarm him, it's the Plutonian part of that combo. That you could "see yourself" in some of these archetypes proves you're already on your way.Joyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-90822181612090773222010-11-08T21:20:17.694-06:002010-11-08T21:20:17.694-06:00Hi Joyce - thank you for this insight. I belong to...Hi Joyce - thank you for this insight. I belong to the Neptune in Scorpio genereation (in the 12th no less) and I wondered what you would say about us? I confess there was a few! things that hit home on the N-Nep, especially the Queen of DeNial and the metababble - ouch! When combined with lots of Virgo and a strong Jup you end up with a VAP - Very Annoying Person ... Neptune is the planet in my chart I don't get - it's just too fuzzy, too murky. Pluto is power, Uranus is fun, Saturn is reward and so on - but Neptune gives me an image of something spooky lurking in dark waters. I'm uncomfortable with the energy. Thanks to your article it's actually a bit clearer. Not too bad!<br />NatalieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-68504709383290737352010-11-08T13:36:31.704-06:002010-11-08T13:36:31.704-06:00Thanks for your helpful perspective and food for t...Thanks for your helpful perspective and food for thought. Will continue to muse...and look forward to Part 4!Lanahttp://www.lanawooster.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-73381661762073346812010-11-08T11:59:49.453-06:002010-11-08T11:59:49.453-06:00Hi, LB!
I love it. I start talking Neptune and it...Hi, LB!<br /><br />I love it. I start talking Neptune and it brings people into the confessional. :) (Religion is the ultimate Neptoon at times. There's the stuff for a series of posts or a book!)<br /><br />I, too, have to monitor myself for the same reasons. You are not alone. Neptune is insidious and slippery when he's gone off the deep end into the negative waters. <br /><br />We can all remind each other.Joyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-12544013482363196852010-11-08T11:45:32.864-06:002010-11-08T11:45:32.864-06:00Much as I hate to admit it, I think I saw a little...Much as I hate to admit it, I think I saw a little of myself in one of your descriptions, which makes me want to re-think some of my natural inclinations – particularly over the internet where boundaries sometimes get too easily crossed. Neptune is very strong in my chart, plus with my Virgo rising septile Neptune, my desire to help and serve can all too easily become intrusive and maybe even self-serving (yuck!). Thankfully, I’m capable of learning from my mistakes; I don’t ever want to be so full of myself that I flow into another person’s space and inadvertently cause them harm.<br /><br />Thanks for the reminder to contain my Neptune.LBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-16905071752120737222010-11-08T11:17:55.179-06:002010-11-08T11:17:55.179-06:00Thanks, Lana. I had a lot of practice not tackling...Thanks, Lana. I had a lot of practice not tackling Neptune, got fed up, and finally figured out how! :) (Beware, Neg-Neps! I'm onto you!)<br /><br />I'm not sure I'm very qualified to talk about the difference between Venus and Neptune when it comes to niceness. Even though I have Taurus Rising, one of my 3 Libra planets is Neptune squaring Moon. So I'm in similar confusion. Still, if I were to venture an educated guess from the middle of that fog, I'd say that Taurus and Libra are nice by nature because they love relationship and the beauty and calm Venus brings. They are nice, at least in part, to keep that Venusian ambience. Neptune nice comes more from compassion and concern about the other person, being protective if not overprotective of the other's feelings. It's more a "becoming them" thing like Neptune is so well-known for. As we well know, depending with whom one merges, that might be anything but peaceful!<br /><br />From Joyce's For What It's Worth Department! :)<br /><br />Love to you,<br />JoyceJoyce Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462878902674014180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-54787638161844484802010-11-08T06:54:24.488-06:002010-11-08T06:54:24.488-06:00great post! ... as someone with Neptoon (love that...great post! ... as someone with Neptoon (love that one) conjunct Mercury in Libra, I sooo need to be reminded of this :)Mary Pat Lynchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07770353944715676858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881668285026141614.post-88943490278333852642010-11-08T06:16:30.501-06:002010-11-08T06:16:30.501-06:00Well done Joyce, tackling the untackleable Neptune...Well done Joyce, tackling the untackleable Neptune!<br /><br />Some of my clients also have the most problems with Neptune.<br /><br />Can I ask a question? What would you say is the difference in quality between Venusian niceness (as in Taurus and Libra) and Neptunian niceness?<br /><br />Having Moon conjunct Neptune in Libra confuses the issue a bit for me.<br /><br />Thanks again, and Love<br /><br />LanaLanahttp://www.lanawooster.co.uknoreply@blogger.com